biminimike

BPP 21E vs. MM 21E

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I am interested in getting a beltfed host to run with a sear.  I want an "'E'" gun so i can swap between 5.56 and 7.62.  Michaels Machine's reviews seem to be split. Some people rave about the guns while others have said the guns come with problems and don't run properly. Carlos at beltfed precison products also makes the rifles but I have found limited reviews on his build. What are peoples experiences with these companies? TSC will only build it on a proper parts kit and hk91, way more than i want to spend on a clone/host gun. 

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I have had multiple from MM, including an E-K. Always ran perfect, both calibers. My experiences with Mike are ALL positive, above and beyond. 


WANTED: Japanese MG-related & Chauchat-related Parts/Accessories

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I agree with NICK ! while not a fan of any of the 21's I have never had someone ask about a fix for any of mikes work and it looks like a piece of art. that 7.62 gun is BRUTAL!  9 rounds and I was DONE.


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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WARNING HK21 WARNING HK21 WARNING HK21 WARNING

As Mike Todd pointed out above, the recoil of an HK21 is extreme.  About ten years ago while shooting a short burst from my HK21, the retina on my right eye detached.  I needed emergency retina surgery to not permanently lose sight in my right eye.  And then six months later I needed cataract surgery in that eye.  The surgeons and eye doctors I encountered during this saga all stated that heavy recoil shoulder fired weapons shake you head violently and should be avoided at all cost.  This is especially true if the shooter is near sighted.  Be warned!

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I also agree mike is way to go.  I've had one for about 10 years now.  Any problems he has always stood by his work.  His turn around time is always good.  The other thing is hes been making them for over a decade and still making them so that should tell you something.  How many hk builders last only a year or 2 or have come and gone in a decade.  And like someone said I've never heard of someone sending one of Mike's guns to someone else.for repair quite the opposite he usually fixes others work.

 

Btw you'll love the 21 or 23.  Personally. FU@K Rambo its hard to beat a 21e it is a little pricey on ammo.  Mine runs fine on that crappy wolf 308.  Spend the cash and get an extra barrel you'll need it.

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I'm in for MM as well. I have the 21e/23e combo for 8 years now and have shot plenty plenty plenty and love the gun. Get one! He always answers the phone and has all the goodies to go with.

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I have a recent Bpp23ek. Wait time was only 4 months and gun runs well!  I had a couple issues  with my pack and housing but Carlos worked through it with me.  I would recommend.

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Yes, I made an account just to post this. My story is on other forums though, including the old subguns, arf, and m4c.

While there are clearly some working examples of the mm21/23, it seems like most of the good ones are from back when Gerard was still alive.

I purchased a mm23e from Mike Otte in August, 2016. It was delivered to me in early 2017, more than three months after the quoted build time, and arrived with numerous build quality issues including poor welds, a warped cage, and a severely canted front sight. The front sight was so far off that the gun could not be zeroed even with the rear sight at the maximum adjustment to one side. It also did not reliably cycle any of my ammunition. This included lc m885, imi m193, imi m885, cbc 62gr, wolf gold, and federal ae. Some issue with the feed mechanism or receiver would cause a casing to get crunched every few rounds, which would distort the case neck and bend the bullet out of alignment, so that it would then jam once pushed into the chamber. These malfunctions were very difficult to resolve, almost always requiring the barrel to be pulled and a pair of pliers to pull the live round out of the chamber.

From early 2017 through January 2018 it went back to him multiple times, with none of the issues resolved. I asked for a refund several times over the course of this saga, and was always told that nobody else had ever requested a refund, so he wouldn't give me one. I also requested several times to try a different feed mechanism, which he never would agree to.

My business partner ran into him at shot show in 2018 only to find him talking smack about me to a couple AZ LE. I was not at the show. An argument between my business partner and Otte resulted in Otte admitting that his belt fed guns are sourced out, and that it is possible they made an error when building mine. I have a video recording of this. After the show he sent me an email talking crap about my business partner, but finally offered to replace the receiver. 7 months later he sent me the new receiver, which corrected the canted front sight and warped cage. However, the gun still would not cycle, with the same crunching issue as before. Otte, as usual, did not believe me, so I started recording every single session with the gun. This included showing the ammo being linked, the ammo types with the head stamps on video, and shooting it and showing all the jams. Somewhere during this testing and showing malfunctions the feed mechanism broke, with multiple pieces falling out the bottom. Since this was on camera Otte finally agreed to send me a new feed mechanism. This *finally* seemed to have resolved the issues, and the gun ran well for a couple thousand rounds.

Two years, $15,000 (extra barrels, accessories), plus many thousands of rounds of ammo and numerous shipping fees sending the gun back and forth....not an ideal experience. I sold the gun to someone who didn't want to wait for one, and less than 3 months later I saw that he was selling it on the forums, except that potential buyers would have to wait to get it because it was once again back with Otte for "maintenance."

There's a huge amount of support for mm online...but if you start digging you'll see that there are plenty of bad experiences as well. Good luck with your decision.


07/02

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I witnessed Slippers’ MM23E tribulations first hand. I had always wanted one as a sear host. After his experience, no way. I do know of two others with a total of three early MM23E that function perfectly. Early guns (Gerard Miller builds, may he Rest In Peace) seem to work. 

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Just a real pisser to hear this. Like I stated My .308/.223 combo is battle field ready. My MM is 100% perfect, and could not be happier. If one has the opportunity to buy one of MM guns, try it first (if possible) once I sell mine, the new owner will be happy happy happy! 

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