ATT-Tactical

Thompson - 21/28 Question

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Ladies & Gentlemen, got a question for the faithful: Properly stamped for a Navy but it has no Anchor on the Buttstock and is not wearing it's Du-Lite finish. Appears to be parkerized. Took it in trade from a smaller Village PD, and the Department had no paperwork on it, yet the 5 came back approved. I was wondering if anyone had "THE BOOK" and would be so kind as to check who originally took delivery of it from Colt-AO. 

John in NY

Serial # 7204

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Colt #7204 - Port Chester New York Police Department. 

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Bingo - that's who I got it from. Very many thanks.
Does it say the date it shipped? I'm not familiar with the book's format if it lists such.. 

 

John in NY

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Here ya go, see below....

1928 Navy #7204

Federal Laboratories Inc. 185 41st Street Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Sales Sample for Salesman, W.C. Jamison Hillman Hotel,

Birmingham, Alabama (1 Shipped to him 9/14/33)

 

Hawkeye Protective Appliance Company (demo) Des Moines, Iowa 5/35

Port Chester, New York Police Department (form 10)

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17 hours ago, Centrifugal Arms said:

Here ya go, see below....

1928 Navy #7204

Federal Laboratories Inc. 185 41st Street Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Sales Sample for Salesman, W.C. Jamison Hillman Hotel,

Birmingham, Alabama (1 Shipped to him 9/14/33)

 

Hawkeye Protective Appliance Company (demo) Des Moines, Iowa 5/35

Port Chester, New York Police Department (form 10)

I'm just curious......... looking at Centrifugal Arms post, it has "Form 10" in parentheses.  As a general point of discussion, how could any gun that was on a Form 10 at some point in its history, end up being transferred out of a LE agency to an SOT on a Form 5?

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If the Thompson was registered during the '68 Amnesty, it would account for the Form 10 Registration but...
How is that information included in Gordon Herigstad's book unless he had submitted a FOIA to NFA for that history, which he didn't.
I don't know if Treasury Practices back then included the factory registering a Thompson to a Police Department on a Form 10 or even if after 1935's transfer, Form 10's were still transferable (since I have it now). 

Without knowing if either W.C. Jamison or Hawkeye Protective requested a 21/28 as a sales sample it would be impossible to determine exactly when this gun was taken off the shelf and converted with it's re-Mark as a Navy gun. 

The gun apparently changed hand 3 times prior to the Port Chester Police Department received it (as per the book), but when did that happen? Before or after Nicaragua? Before or after ?

Anyway, I have that 21/28, that's been Parkerized, but I know it's never been refinished by the Port Chester Police Department. The U.S. NAVY and the *8* overstamp show the base metal so unless the Police did a scam and this is a restamp, the Parkerizing was done prior to it's conversion.

AO did have 1911's going out with a Parkerized finish. 

Thoughts?  Anyone?


 

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  I claim absolutely no expertise on the COLT THOMPSONS and variations , but have personally examined well over 250 examples in hand over the years I HAVE TRIED TO FOLLOW THIS THREAD AND JUST SEE WHERE IT GO'S BUT NOW I NEED TO KNOW, where the possibility of NICARAGUA USE enters its history?  of the more than 150 COLTS we ran thru the books ONLY one example had that provenance and it was not marked "NAVY" it was stamped 8 over 1 and then A1 followed. at the time many doubted its provenance or if there was even any known example in private hands from that small lot the marines carried over there. when GORDON was a guest and checking the inventory, it was part of the group he never touched b-4 he was asked to "leave" and all those never made his book. the term "SALES SAMPLE" as applied in the AUTO ORDNANCE LOGS and the FEDERAL LAB BOOKS from the  period we are concerned with here, does NOT mean the same thing as the term is considered by ATF or its POSITION in the registry. in the 30'S many guns were logged out at price levels that would have raised a flag at the end of the year. this was justified and considered temporary by the term "sales sample" allowing a out of channel destination for demo purposes only. 


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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I make even less a claim to possessing any Colt Thompson knowledge. Port Chester PD is located in Lower Westchester County, a stone's throw from the Connecticut line. It had sat in their basement gun vault for as long as the oldest living cop still working there remembers. 

Lets just say that after the gun went to Hawkeye Protective Appliance Company (demo) Des Moines, Iowa  on 5/1935 (and they were a Thompson Dealer I discovered) , without knowing when it was registered to Port Chester, it leaves a big hole in its history. 

They had no paperwork on it ( No early Treasury Letter & no later Form 10 and I did check with the Department's Secretary for a Repair Invoice or any mention of it in any Department Weapons Log all the way back to the remaining (post-Fire) records (1963).

The 3 Ithaca Auto Burglars came from the same department and Form 5'ed to me just fine.  

And for Nicaragua, I thought all those were '28's, (which, if I'm reading History right, were all Parkerized).

Now, the Port Chester Post Office was hit repeatedly by bad guys back in the late '3o-'4o-'5o's when cash moved between the Manhattan GPO and Boston GPO via the US Mails. US Marines did escort the mail runs through Port Chester which served as a resorting station before being sent up US Route 1 north. This is all speculation on my part. 

 

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"What an interesting gun, I wish it could talk.  In my opinion, it appears someone along the way stripped most of the Colt Parts out of this gun and replaced them with WWII vintage 28a1 parts.  I can say without doubt, the barrel is a WWII contract 28 barrel, as is the type 4 cutts that's on the gun.  The lower is obviously Colt but the parts inside it are not (or at least the ones I can see), selector lever, safety, mag catch.  I'm nearly certain the rear sight has been replaced or at a minimum the rivets have.  The actuator is for a late model Savage 28a1, the bolt is likely replaced but would need to know if there's any marking on it to help, the recoil spring guide would need checked on the flat that fits up against the receiver for an S marking I would guess is there (as a side note) I don't see a buffer in the pictures, if it's missing it should be replaced before shooting the gun.  Lastly the wood... I don't believe the buttstock is Colt because it's missing it's Anchor from Remington that all of them had, just incase it's hard to see in the pictures, pull the butt plate off and see if there's numbers under it, Remington numbered all stocks and butt plates on the underside (similar S/N:s as the guns but they weren't matched to the gun) that would settle that.  I can't say on the pistol grip or front grip without more detailed pictures of them.   I would think if someone was taking the Colt parts they would have also took the wood, who knows though."

https://www.dropbox.com/s/797mftx28vls7zk/20200117_100001.jpg?dl=0   Buttstock Wood & Buttplate
I can't help notice the Buttplate number has the gun's serial number, last 3 digits inversed

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bwhv121nfygnaet/20200117_100243.jpg?dl=0 The PCPD etched into the wood

The Recoil Spring Guide does bear the "S" mark, but it is too short and caused the recoil spring to kink badly. 
Machined a longer more robust unit and used the Wolff Spring set along with the original buffer. The spring no longer doubles over and it operates smoothly.
It now functions flawlessly.

I'll get pictures of the bolt.  

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My 21/28 Colt/Savage Thompson Frankenstein SMG won't work with the stick mags that came with the gun. And somewhere I remember reading that there was a G.I. Thompson Mag Catch that would work in a 21 based gun so that "Military " stick mags would work??? How would I identify & differentiate between M1 and 21 mags by looking at them? And was there really such a Mag Catch? My Drum mags work perfectly and lock in solidly. 

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Magazines for an M1 and 21 or 28 are all functionally the same.  If your stick mags aren't working, you may have an issue with the magazine catch but more likely you may have stick mags that were modified for use in semi guns.  Check the back of the mag and see if the hole that the catch locks into has been elongated or if it's still round.  If it's been elongated, your mags are sitting too low in the gun to feed properly and will need repaired/replaced.

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