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Is the subguns boards down


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MGC is ending soon! 

As you probably know, GunSpot.com is going to be the new home for Machine Gun Central. The old Machine Gun Central site is being pulled down THIS SUNDAY, JULY 14TH AT MIDNIGHT, and from there GunSpot.com will be the new MGC listing site.

GunSpot will be the one spot for internet shoppers to come to view everything the gun world has to offer, and the new  Machine Gun Central will be a huge part. This site is better in every way! It has a better design, with more features, higher security, a broader audience, and much, much more.  Plus it will only get better as we will be adding new features all the time.
_____________________________________________________________

We would advise you to not list anymore items on the old Machine Gun Central site.  If you recently created a listing, get registered on Gunspot.com and email us at support@gunspot.com and we will give you a free listing so you can re-create it on the new site.  If you need any help learning how to use GunSpot visit our
tutorials page, live chat with us or email us at support@gunspot.com




Thank you,
The GunSpot Support Team
support@gunspot.com
(417)-850-1649

 

 

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On 7/24/2019 at 8:00 PM, Side Arm Sams said:

boo-hoo!

Mehhh.......Not sure to many people really care ...Subguns has been dead to me since the sale. Could care less what Frank does. Never been a fan, but your mileage may vary. 

Subguns as such is done, gone,. over..

It was a time, a place and good people (Mostly).

Many are gone, (bless your soul Wayne L. Burnam, Kent Lamont, Hank Kaminski and other board members of the old subguns crew) many have moved on.

R.I.P Subguns

We miss you.

 

R.L.

Edited by R.L.
typo
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The GDB was what launched Subguns back in the beginning. The for sale boards  were an afterthought that were never taken seriously as a revenue generating asset as evidenced by its eventual demise. It was a place to chat, commiserate ,occasionally start purse fights and communicate with good folks. Some where along the way all that got lost, unfortunately. The place has started to slide downhill long before the sale. I personally would have been happier if Ruben , Jim Corby or one of the original board member dealers would have taken over ownership, but wasn't my board to make that decision.

I guess this is what $25K gets you.....a dead board site, with no accountability to board users. No thanks, I'll just stay right here on Sturm as I have since day one!

No fancy do-dads or pie in the sky B.S. promises.

Steady wins the race, and Sturm is the place!

 

R.L.

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Right now, if you go to Subguns, you get this...

Screen Shot 2019-07-27 at 1.35.53 PM.png

I wish Frank the best, and hope the Subguns downtime is temporary.  

The following is speculative on my part, but I do know a bit about how Subguns' website runs.  For a few years, around the turn of the century, we hosted it on our server, and the URL used to redirect you to our Biggerhammer site.  Those who remember way back, there was a period of time when if you typed in 'Subguns.com" it would automatically redirect you to "subguns.biggerhammer.net."  Sturm and Subguns were run on the same type of software, circa 1999.  That software stopped having any support after about 2002.  I believe that Subguns had some custom updates made to it after that, but the discussion forum still ran on what is essentially 1990's software until it was taken down recently.  Perhaps they have figured out a way to migrate any archived content.  That would be awesome, but I also know that would be difficult to translate into a new format, and there are no member logins, so assigning any posts to existing members on another platform would be at least a partially manual process.  Think about how you typed in your name every time you logged onto Subguns, or the old Sturm.  There were no member accounts.  Think 1990's...As such, the software today could be easily corrupted, damaged unintentionally, or potentially messed with.  

That was the main reason we made the decision to go to the new forum software for Sturm in 2016.  That, and we wanted regular support, instead of selling t-shirts and other efforts that never fully funded the site, and pulled many monthly dollars from my wallet for over 12 years.

We'll see what happens.  Maybe they will be down for a couple of weeks, and then return to service.  There's a long history of behind the scenes cooperation between the two sites, the extent of which is really only known or acknowledged by the principle folks who used to be involved.  No Subguns mods are fully aware of what I'm talking about.  Frank has also been very friendly to Sturm, and I hope that he works through any IT issues that may be contributing to the current Subguns downtime.

In the meantime, please feel free to post on the discussion boards here, or if you are a serious collector, post on Machinegunboards.com.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

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Shame on me..I forgot to include Charlie Logan in that list of old Subguns originals, and "regular good guys." And of course that dates us both but wtf.. it is what it is.  You can always tell who your friends are when life turns upside down and others turn the other way.

Charlie has been one of the few people from this board who check up on me time to time, taking his valuable time to just ask HTF are you doing, knowing what I've been going through the last few years.

I really appreciate that. Charlie's a good guy.

Thanks Charlie.

 

R.L.

 

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Guys .... to be clear ......  . I am not really part of the new Sturm board now .......

I put in MANY HOURS monitoring the OLD Sturm Board..... 16 years or so ..... without any sign up ..... troublemakers could post at will ...... CAUSING ME LOTS OF WORK ...... ZAPPING !!

with these new boards ..... monitoring is ....... EASY PEASY ......  almost not needed

So ........ I can retire and sell off my Collection 

Buddy

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On 7/23/2019 at 11:10 PM, robbo said:

haven't been able to view the subguns boards for awhile now. Is it me or something Frank has done.

Yeah, it appears Frank pulled the plug; he just won’t come right out and admit it, but his silence speaks volumes. 

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OK to be fair before making a judgement, I just navigated this new Gun Spot site one end to the other.

Mehhh, and so what's the big deal already?

Sorry.... I was severely underwhelmed.

Nothing new, dynamic or earth shattering there for me.

Just another plain vanilla internet gun site with a new name.

If this new gun site is supposed to compete with other more established gun sites like Gunbroker....G.F.L. with that! 

Trying to reinvent the wheel hardly ever ends in a positive manner.

 

FWIW,

R.L.

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Not that I ever posted there ( or here) very often but I just tried to log in at the Subguns/Snugbus/Gunspot/Topsnug whatever website using my old Subguns login and it asked for my email to reset the password, yet said "password reset" even though no email was received from them.  Whatever... the link above works.

Kevin in NC

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On 8/1/2019 at 8:07 PM, Toad said:

The boards are back up-with no need to log in or register or anything.

Just go to:

http://boards.subguns.com/boards/

and you can navigate to all of the boards you want from there...

Back  up and better  than  ever!

Thanks Toad for posting...

The more the merrier!

UNITED WE STAND. 

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Well I see thry fixed that entry point... now it goes to the same login, etc...F it all! If they want a log in I won't bother looking let alone listing any of my junk there.... LOL

Charlie

PTRS

ARMS & ORDNANCE

PA

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah I tried logging in had to reset password as it wouldn't accept the old one. Never received any email to do that. I'm kinda done with it at this point. It was a good run while it lasted. But the new NFA section sucks and I can't access the message boards. 

I can understand requiring a log in to post but you can't even lurk and just read the posts anymore. 

Charles@Viking Arms

Aka SolothurnATv2

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At this point I don't know why I should even care anymore but after repeated attempts to log in and/or change my password I finally got the response below a week ago, but nothing since.  Either their problems are insurmountable or they just don't care enough to even apologize.

Kevin in NC

  Kevin Bartlett
  Thu, 08/15/19 11:53 pm  
 
  Message: Can't log in using my old Subguns user ID and password.  
 
 
 
  Ticket created while on: https://gunspot.com/signup/

 

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Anything that's this much trouble to use, is hardly worth the effort.

The old Subguns Boards we knew are dead, and are never coming back.

I don't believe the purchase of Subguns was ever about the GDB.

It was about market monopoly of NFA sales.

A blind man could have seen this train coming.....

 

FWIW,

R.L.

 

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Awful. log in and submit email. Now they’re sending spam email trying to sell me crap. Lots of crap clutter and advertisements. Featured this and special that. Highlighted and bannered garbage trying to distract you from finding what you really want. All for a cheap sale. Good job, you finally succeeded in destroying something we all loved. 

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The sole intent was to acquire a high traffic website and harvest all the info including email and IP addresses just like every radio contest and other websites.  It's the internet, there is no free lunch, you're always giving something up whether you realize it or not.  Could be worse, the google has all of your bank balances, etc.  and can pinpoint what you are having for lunch tomorrow before you know.

As Tom ran it, it was a free lunch, yet you don't see anyone thanking him? The welfare state always complains when they lose something they never paid for.

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Yes it's a free market, yes it's anyone's right to buy and sell whatever is for sale, no matter what the commodity or item, but let's be clear...this whole market maneuver purchase/takeover of Snubguns was NOT become to your pal, not because gee wiz I really like you guys, so I'll just buy this board for you to chat away.

It was about attempting to become a dominant internet sales point for all things C3 and firearms related items....by using your C3 to inflate the perceived image of the site. Without certain listers on this site, there would not be much for sale. Feed the monster  and the monster grows. Starve the monster and he shrivels up and dies.

I guess it just depends on how bad you want to be a part if the new cult. No thanks for me.

After the sale the discussion boards were collateral damage in an attempt to garner market sales through the purchase, plain and simple.

You guys are already on the best C3 board on the net...make it your new home.

Forget Snubguns...it's old news.

 

FWIW,

R.L.

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As much as I love the Albert brothers(and I do-and I miss those guys because neither of them live in Texas anymore...) but calling this the best C3 board on the net when my post trying to help someone find an integral can for his Swedish K was the most recent post-and it was from Wednesday, leads me to believe that the traffic here is even less than the traffic at the new Subguns with the sign-in/log-in requirement, so, I don't know who R.L. is but I imagine he was banned from Subguns at some point or is otherwise butthurt and that is where he is coming from.

I would love Sturmgewehr.com to come back to where it was 10 years ago from the discussion board standpoint, but I don't see it happening.  I hope the sales boards are awesomely successful and Andy and Dave and Buddy actually make some money from what is really a labor of love and was never supposed to be a commercial endeavor...

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TOAD, speaking STRICTLY as a previous "outsider" (not of my choice) volume in ALL forums of this board, went  down MAINLY because the possibility of finding new offerings dropped equally because the supply was  exhausted or restricted out of existence WORLD WIDE. in the furious peak period one had to visit hourly and huge lots went FAST. most people would hit the F/S posts then scoot to the other forums to keep up to date and MAYBE attempt a post. OTHER reasons did equal damage to participation and numbers fell. I spent 5 years and NEVER managed to avoid the dreaded ZAP I knew was coming for one reason or the other. MANY OTHER long time MAJOR PLAYERS in this industry suffered the same fate and to this day will never come back and of course we will never see quantities or variations again. since DAVID made the changes, I have seen things grow and many new players have become regular visitors. b-4 FRANK , sub guns was a fantastic place in all aspects but never came close to STURM and his motives will always DOOM any place he control's . I believe this to be the BEST SITE OF ITS TYPE ON THE NET and it can only get better from here IF we manage to survive when the smoke clears post Nov 2020.  AS a group we should all see to it that every post gets some type of answer when asked a question and have no fear posting our opinion in a thread. the remarks and YOUR thoughts on RL are the only reason I posted in this thread, they are not even close and I will bet you have not followed his political contributions or you would not have made the incorrect assumption/ remarks you did. HE , LIKE ME, AND MANY others, SIMPLY dislike FRANK, his methods and manners and as you can see is not afraid to let it be known.       MIKE

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Well I don't know you either Toad, but that statement has as much significance you not knowing me...Mehh so what?

This board is not like the Subguns board where you have to belong to the "devoted" ones to be a part of the board.

Never been banned at Subguns.I decided to stop posting at Subguns quite a while ago after the place got to be pretty stupid.

I was one of the first board members of Subguns back around the Vollmer days, but I've also been a member here too since day 1.

Like anyone cares.

Yes I too would love to see Sturm where it was years ago from a Discussion standpoint also.

One of the reasons I post here so regularly, to try to get others to enter into more discussion.....

Looks like it worked in this instance.

Thanks for your post.

 

R.L.

 

Edited by R.L.
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Speaking for myself, I like both Subguns and Sturm. I feel both serve a purpose and are invaluable.

I think the world would be a lousier place if either of them were to go away. 

My opinion only. I am not going to be sad if everyone else thinks I suck. 

In Liberty,

Kristopher

 

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No one thinks you you suck based on your opinions. That's the beauty of this country and this board. Everyone has opinions and ideas and the right to express them. Not everyone will agree with all opinions, but that's free speech....in theory anyway. Unless ur a demon-rat. Whole different discussion.

What is NOT permissible in civil society is to  berate, harass or threaten others because of their opinions. I'm talking normal opinions here, not terroristic type stuff where people think they have a right to blow up whoever is not a true believer, and such.

Everyone likes what they like, but few like change, especially radical or abrupt change.

And it only gets worse as you get older.

 

FWIW,

R.L.

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In regards to my statement that Sturm is the best C3 site on the net. I will quantify that statement.

There will always be  those that love to feed at the trough of the all you can eat slop houses and think that this the the best food ever, as they clog their stomach & veins with fat and empty calories. Yum. Yum..right?

And then there are those that appreciate fine dining experiences at 5 star restaurants. I lean towards the fine dining with smaller portions and chef prepared delicacies.

There's no right and no wrong, or is there? I guess it's whatever you like and can afford. BUT there is definitely a difference in both meals.

Same as the difference between Snubguns and Sturm.

Snubguns was more a McDonald's kind of place to sell and visit, where Sturm was more a Mortons/Ruth Criss Steakhouse kind of place to post or sell.

To be totally frank I never sold one piece of my C3 collection on Subguns. I did run into a fair share of goof balls, while trying though.

However I did sell my entire 36 year collection right here on Sturm over 2 years, making the bitter sweet experience as easy as possible.

Now the absolute best part. I met in the process of selling my collection , some of the finest people I've ever met. Many people I've stayed in contact with and call friend to this day.

Best of anything can never be based strictly on volume, at least by those who appreciate quality.

I will not mention names of these folks, that would be an invasion of their privacy, but suffice it to say I've sold things to buyers from PA to Oregon, and nothing but good things to say about the quality of the people with every last deal.

One of the absolute DUMBEST things that happened at Snubguns, before the place went down the toilet completely, was the disrespectful and abrupt, cowardly manner in  which JJ Werner was treated by banning him.

Absolutely Disgraceful. That man knew more about optics and night vision than the entire board of idiots that decided to ban him. That was it for me. I pulled the plug at Snubguns after that display of juvenile behavior,  and never looked back.

Neither should you.

 

FWIW,

R.L.

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46 minutes ago, R.L. said:

In regards to my statement that Sturm is the best C3 site on the net. I will quantify that statement.

There will always be  those that love to feed at the trough of the all you can eat slop houses and think that this the the best food ever, as they clog their stomach & veins with fat and empty calories. Yum. Yum..right?

And then there are those that appreciate fine dining experiences at 5 star restaurants. I lean towards the fine dining with smaller portions and chef prepared delicacies.

There's no right and no wrong, or is there? I guess it's whatever you like and can afford. BUT there is definitely a difference in both meals.

Same as the difference between Snubguns and Sturm.

Snubguns was more a McDonald's kind of place to sell and visit, where Sturm was more a Mortons/Ruth Criss Steakhouse kind of place to post or sell.

To be totally frank I never sold one piece of my C3 collection on Subguns. I did run into a fair share of goof balls, while trying though.

However I did sell my entire 36 year collection right here on Sturm over 2 years, making the bitter sweet experience as easy as possible.

Now the absolute best part. I met in the process of selling my collection , some of the finest people I've ever met. Many people I've stayed in contact with and call friend to this day.

Best of anything can never be based strictly on volume, at least by those who appreciate quality.

I will not mention names of these folks, that would be an invasion of their privacy, but suffice it to say I've sold things to buyers from PA to Oregon, and nothing but good things to say about the quality of the people with every last deal.

One of the absolute DUMBEST things that happened at Snubguns, before the place went down the toilet completely, was the disrespectful and abrupt, cowardly manner in  which JJ Werner was treated by banning him.

Absolutely Disgraceful. That man knew more about optics and night vision than the entire board of idiots that decided to ban him. That was it for me. I pulled the plug at Snubguns after that display of juvenile behavior,  and never looked back.

Neither should you.

 

FWIW,

R.L.

Well, JJ Werner was never 'banned' from Subguns.  He was given a brief time-out for breaking the board rules(after he had been warned multiple times apparently).  After that brief time-out, he was more than welcome to continue posting on Subguns, but he chose not to return-and that is his prerogative.

The sales boards here might have been better quality and had better volume over the years, but since they went to a registration system, the discussion boards became a shadow of their former selves-in both volume and quality, so much so that I stopped even coming here to check them out not long after the board format changed. 

Up until Frank's recent shutdown of the Subguns boards, the volume and quality of posts and posters on the NFA and Non-NFA discussion boards was probably the best in the C3 world, and I am afraid it might not get back to that level due to Frank's actions...

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Toad, R.L. et al,

Thank you for your kind words, and also your honest opinions.  

Toad...Andy and I miss you, too.  The old Astrohall shows were great, as were the various Austin and E. TX shoots.  It's been a long time!  As many say, "Those were the good old days!"

I'll just say that with a change from an anonymous posting system (no login), which both Subguns and Sturm used to have, that some folks just don't like logging in to comment.  That's fine, but we had to make the change.  The old software was no longer supported, and presented too much risk.  

I'm open to making any changes to the discussion boards that may be beneficial to the site.  Sturm has always focused on the market board side of things, and the discussion boards have been secondary.  Subguns has been the opposite.  Their discussion boards thrived, and market boards were secondary.  We'll see how it all turns out.  I'd like to see both entities remain successful.

If you really like serious, collector discussion, I suggest also giving Machinegunboards.com a try.  

Thanks!

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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  • 8 months later...

Frank's emails like to fill up my spam folder as well. 

It'd be hard to buy anything from Frank after he bought subguns and killed it like he did. He made so many promises to Tom and all the rest of the regulars about how nothing would change. Then he changed them bit by bit til nothing remained, making half ass excuses the whole time. I honestly think he hired one of the least qualified website designers to make MGC, it looked like crap from the beginning, and he kept saying how hard she was working at it, only to fire her later. 

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