swampfoxoutdoors

Rules on creating a Stenling

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Buddy and I have been talking about Stenlings and wondered what the rules are on them as far as having one built? And who is doing the conversions?

He is hoping to buy a registered tube and have someone build it out. But we both have a few questions. 

- Does the tube have to be a certain spec?

- Any particular Parts kits to buy?

- And whats the ATFs rules on building one out? If its marked as STEN on the F4 can it only be built out as a STEN?

- Pretty sure I know the answer to this but can a sten that is complete be transformed into a stenling? 

- Whats the going rate for a professional conversion with refinishing? 

 

Any information shed on the topic would be greatly appreciated. 

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WHOA NOW ........ don't drag me into this adventure ....... ;-))

Surely you mean ....... " a buddie of mine " ............ Not Me .

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LOL, that is exactly what I was thinking when I read that post too!


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I am such a dummy... Not you Buddy H. lol :D

Friend is getting ready to buy his first MG and was looking closely at a sten. I have a M11 and been trying to get him to buy a MG for the past year and a half. He has been saving his pennys and I have been helping him look for stens. Well we ran across a sten tube that was posted on here about a year ago at a gun shop close to us in GA. The sten tube has long been sold but it has gotten both myself and him talking about a stenling builds.

Seems like picking up a registered tube for $4.5k spending another $500-1000 on a nice sterling kit the have someone build it out (for some amount guessing $1500-2000) and poof you have a 15K gun is a no brainier.  But there has to be more to it than that. If that was the case I figured there would be alot more of these conversions taking place and all of the raw registered tubes would have all been built out by now. What am I missing? Open to reading past threads if this has been discussed before. Just post me the links. 

 

I am just here seeking knowledge. I am new to the game only one MG in & over 2 years of reading and looking and just trying to learn as much as I can. 

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On 3/23/2019 at 8:24 AM, swampfoxoutdoors said:

Buddy and I have been talking about Stenlings and wondered what the rules are on them as far as having one built? And who is doing the conversions?

He is hoping to buy a registered tube and have someone build it out. But we both have a few questions. 

- Does the tube have to be a certain spec?

- Any particular Parts kits to buy?

- And whats the ATFs rules on building one out? If its marked as STEN on the F4 can it only be built out as a STEN?

- Pretty sure I know the answer to this but can a sten that is complete be transformed into a stenling? 

- Whats the going rate for a professional conversion with refinishing? 

Any information shed on the topic would be greatly appreciated. 

1 hour ago, swampfoxoutdoors said:

 

I know very little about Stenlings. However, I do remember two names: Don Quinell of Florida and John Andrewski of New Hampshire. Either should be able to answer your questions in regards to the Stenling. 

Best of luck to you, sir. 

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contact John Andrewski with all your Sterling/Stenling build questions.

There are specific regs concerning the slot in the tube and issues with the differing angles of those slots. 

 

and read the SAR article if you havent

 

SAR artcile on stenling builds

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On 3/25/2019 at 3:33 PM, rhouston8 said:

contact John Andrewski with all your Sterling/Stenling build questions.

There are specific regs concerning the slot in the tube and issues with the differing angles of those slots. 

 

and read the SAR article if you havent

 

SAR artcile on stenling builds

I would do this... Contact  John Andrewski......I had a Wilson Tube Sten Mk II and I talked to John about it.  Based on where the serial numbers where on the tube, he stated that he could not do the conversion without damaging the original serial numbers and you simply cant just "remark" an NFA item (this is what he told me). 

I ended up buying a DLO Sterling tube and 2 kits and sent them off to  John Andrewski ... All I can say is wow.. the man is the Obi Wan of Sterlings. 100% Satisfied with the gun.28p114.jpg

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The Andrewski family legacy will be Stenling/Sterling. That said my first "Stenling" was a Quinell made way back a couple decades ago and has about 60 thousand rounds through it with only replacing bolt/springs and barrel as normal wear.  No issues at all.  I constantly read about gun fails but most are the same 'ol stories retold.  Even the Sterling tube guns have had failures from several C-2's..  I don't bad mouth anyone unless I have PERSONALLY seen the issue..  Currently newish "Stenlings" built from torch cut parts vs. the early sawcut have heat treat issues that are very difficult to overcome and unless MPI inspected should be avoided. YES, I have seen this myself.

The point is no matter who builds the "stenling"(for that note Sterlings also, since originals are super scarce) an issue can happen as with any firearm. All can be remedied.. You bought the paper and the gun came with it. 

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BEST THING ABOUT THIS POST IS WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THAT THERE IS ONLY ON "BUDDY". (good info!)  YES there are still bare tubes out there in fact at least one will be in one of the major auctions this fall.  personally I would buy one already done the way you want that you can prove runs and not look back. when it comes to "remanufacturing" you would be subject to the license holder's interpretation of the regulations and any problems or violations would be his sole responsibility unless of course you choose to "conspire" to violate the rules with the builder which I would avoid at all cost. the way I see it if the original tube or markings are not disturbed and parts are just "added" to make it a stenling or what ever you choose to call it, you are good to go. I have seen several sterlings offered and a few sold in the $7500.$8000 range this year. most sterling "tube" guns I handled back when anyone could build one had a tube made of thicker material that the typical sten tubes on the market which can only be a good thing. in my book ANDREWSKI would need to be in the mix at least somewhere and I have never seen anything bad from MR NORRELL so that may be another option. so it sounds like everyone is on the same page or at least  close speed reader. GOOD LUCK and HAVE FUN!  mike


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Posted (edited)

On 9/30/2019 at 3:11 PM, mike todd said:

BEST THING ABOUT THIS POST IS WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THAT THERE IS ONLY ON "BUDDY". (good info!)  YES there are still bare tubes out there in fact at least one will be in one of the major auctions this fall.  personally I would buy one already done the way you want that you can prove runs and not look back. when it comes to "remanufacturing" you would be subject to the license holder's interpretation of the regulations and any problems or violations would be his sole responsibility unless of course you choose to "conspire" to violate the rules with the builder which I would avoid at all cost. the way I see it if the original tube or markings are not disturbed and parts are just "added" to make it a stenling or what ever you choose to call it, you are good to go. I have seen several sterlings offered and a few sold in the $7500.$8000 range this year. most sterling "tube" guns I handled back when anyone could build one had a tube made of thicker material that the typical sten tubes on the market which can only be a good thing. in my book ANDREWSKI would need to be in the mix at least somewhere and I have never seen anything bad from MR NORRELL so that may be another option. so it sounds like everyone is on the same page or at least  close speed reader. GOOD LUCK and HAVE FUN!  mike

7.5 to 8M.. ??? Stockmarket tanking.. NFA's  in my portfolio..  Gimme.. now.. Since "real" Sterlings are rare and very few were registered  prior to "86  almost all are "tube " guns.  I did find some DLO tubes that were amended to MkIV legally with small slot---.   Want- Want-- 

Edited by mstrmstr

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You might also Look at the PAWS guns, John can also convert them over to all parts interchangable sterlings except for the PAWS Markings.

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On 10/3/2019 at 7:34 AM, tal35 said:

You might also Look at the PAWS guns, John can also convert them over to all parts interchangable sterlings except for the PAWS Markings.

Strange you mentioned this- Today I found a Paws that was in 45 cal and fed with grease gun mags.. Looked rough but it was mostly finish wear from beating around in a farmers tractor for a couple decades.or some such silly story.. .(yes, it was properly papered.)

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I was the one ( at least the first one we knew of ) who wrote the original letter to BATF tech branch back in the 80s to convert a Sten to Sterling - I went back and forth with them to get  permission,  And worked with Stan Adreweski on what the best "doable " solutions would be.  I traded Stan the letter / conversion for doing the work on my tube.  I still have the file.  I don't know who is doing conversions now - I have not seen "new" unbuilt tubes for sale in a long time, although I am sure there are some sitting in safes out there. The issue is that when we did this, BATF would not allow us to fill and recut the receiver tubs since the bolt handle slot is different in the STEN  and Sterling. Later, in the mid 90s when the Sterling parts kits were cheap, we built some post samples with new tube sections.  Best bet at this point would be to buy a built STEN and use the tube .

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Posted (edited)

The makers that will do the conversions now are VERY expensive and take a L O N G time to complete. The sawcut gun kits have all but dried up and if found are partial sawcut and super expensive since it usually takes two kits to finish one gun.  I called a couple days ago and got a quote for 650 for a good kit and 24 to 2600.00 minimum for the build. Add the two way shipping and you could wind up paying over $4,000 to get a gun done ( and that is a IF the C-2 wants to bother with it!)  The faster money seems to always put your project on the back burner.  I had a gun done for competition a few years back and done in Cerakote to  match military contract guns and lucky I had it done then!DSC02246 (Medium).JPG

Edited by mstrmstr

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On 3/24/2019 at 11:56 AM, swampfoxoutdoors said:

I am such a dummy... Not you Buddy H. lol :D

Friend is getting ready to buy his first MG and was looking closely at a sten. I have a M11 and been trying to get him to buy a MG for the past year and a half. He has been saving his pennys and I have been helping him look for stens. Well we ran across a sten tube that was posted on here about a year ago at a gun shop close to us in GA. The sten tube has long been sold but it has gotten both myself and him talking about a stenling builds.

Seems like picking up a registered tube for $4.5k spending another $500-1000 on a nice sterling kit the have someone build it out (for some amount guessing $1500-2000) and poof you have a 15K gun is a no brainier.  But there has to be more to it than that. If that was the case I figured there would be alot more of these conversions taking place and all of the raw registered tubes would have all been built out by now. What am I missing? Open to reading past threads if this has been discussed before. Just post me the links. 

 

I am just here seeking knowledge. I am new to the game only one MG in & over 2 years of reading and looking and just trying to learn as much as I can. 

I like the wishful thinking on prices.. This is not 2013.. If you find kits you need TWO and they need to be sawcut from way back as now the torcuts are ruined. Some of the C2's do not do conversions anymore due to the time now involved is not economically viable to them.  Raw tubes in reality run 7500 from reputable sources and with the transfer time of 1-2 years for paperwork( depending on F4 vs F3 etc..  Mfgs are charging  up to 3 grand with shipping costs or more making your "build price"  a realistic 13 to 14 thousand and don't forget the time involved to build  so a scenario of  2 1/2 to nearly 3 years or more before you actually "own" the gun.. THAT my friend is one reason prices are at the levels they are now..  Not to mention the 200 to 400 in NFA tax..and your SOT transfer fees. For those completed guns that are on F3 now the dealers are not ASKING they are GETTING the prices since ONE tax and a year sounds so much better to most all buyers.. 

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