texas_yankee

UZI checklist items?

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I had an M11 with some of the Lage add-ons for a few years and sold it all - looking to get back into the FA world and I'm focusing on an Uzi, based on some of the FA issues that are important to me.  In a perfect world after I've won the lottery, I'd buy a FA AK-47 or M-16, but I haven't won the lotto and those guns are too expensive for me.  I know that there are a lot of FA Uzi variations (registered bolt, registered receiver, registered sear, etc.), and variations in Uzi models (micro, mini, carbine, etc.), and variations in Uzi manufacturers and conversions (Vector, Group, IMI, etc.) so I'm looking for guidance as far as specifically what to look for.  I absolutely don't wanna spend more time being a machine gun gunsmith or gun mechanic more than just shooting the gun, and I don't wanna have to be shipping my gun back and forth to experts all the time to tune it, fix it, or tweak it. I've listed some of what's important to me - thanks in advance for any specific model suggestions or additions to my list.

  1. reliability
  2. replacement parts availability
  3. magazine cost \ availability
  4. 22LR upper availability and reliability
  5. add-on availability (mounts, foregrips, etc.)
Edited by texas_yankee
focus

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BEEN THERE DONE THAT AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YER THINKING!  if you positively want it to run first time out the box and forever from then on, get a registered receiver model A or B.from ACTION ARMS most have had the denial removed but if not for spares you can groove your own spare MG BOLTS with a 4" grinder, dress it with a file and pull the trigger. most but not all had the barrel denial ring removed. if not an original mg barrel will need a relief cut at the breech.  if used pay close attention to the ejector rivets that they are original, look for any bulges or waves in the sides and be sure the top cover fits proper. the converted registered receiver ACTION ARMS model A+B would be top of the food chain as above and you can use the common original sub gun parts out there for now. I have seen SEVERAL GROUP INDUSTRY and VECTOR marked GROUP guns come out of the box and fail even after lots of tuning etc so if you go that way , be prepared. I know of 3  B+G registered bolts that refuse to run in ANYTHING so BEWARE BIG TIME. even if it works now, how long?  I prefer the SWEED K to all 9mm sub guns when ORIGINAL but at $38k plus they are out of the picture.  the UZI would be my 2nd choice . reasonable price, reliable, lots of parts and mags. my action arms .22 conversion kit has not been used in 10 years or so but it works well. mags are too short and 9mm reloads are cheep so why?  ADD ON'S ? not for me as in most cases were meant to be sold NOT USED they just get in my way or cut you. the gun needs no optic's and again they are in my way. some of you out there may not agree and that's fine, many young lads have paid the price to keep it each his own and that WILL work for me. cheers mike 


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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Pretty solid advice above, plus one for the Swedish K too, great guns.  However, just wanted to add, if you end up with an Actions Arms gun with the denial bar still in it, you cannot groove additional bolts as spares, which also prevents you from doing caliber conversions as well. FA uzi bolts w/ slot are considered MGs themselves, with exception to the one in the gun which is "married" to the receiver.....that's my understanding anyway, YMMV.

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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 1:34 PM, mike todd said:

… you can groove your own spare MG BOLTS with a 4" grinder, dress it with a file and pull the trigger. …

It is my understanding that BATFE considers a slotted Uzi full auto bolt to be a machine gun all by itself.

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YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT, "SLOTTED BOLTS ARE MG'S BY THEMSELVES" . BUT A REGISTERED RECEIVER WITH THE DENIAL PLATE< ALLOWS THE POSSESION OF A SLOTTED BOLT/ (s) THAT IS NOT REGISTERED ! IN the very earliest days of converting action arms UZI'S the fastest way for little guys like me was to buy one of those slotted bolts before they had to be registered. they were using original SMG bolts and no welding to create the hood was needed. which was a pretty big deal.  also leaving the denial intact meant no chance of damaging the finish getting rid of it.. if your denial  is intact and the receiver is registered you can indeed have and create additional slotted bolts you want as spares for that gun.  several of us did it that way and did the rec via a form 1 and we all have spares. you will find both slotted and not slotted registered bolts out there  in the system  and the altered ORIGINAL SMG BOLTS ARE THE BEST in that category.


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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23 hours ago, mike todd said:

... if your denial is intact and the receiver is registered you can indeed have and create additional slotted bolts you want as spares for that gun.  ..

May I slot full auto bolts in calibers other than what the receiver is specified with?  How many additional slotted spare bolts may I possess?  May I hire someone else to slot these full auto bolts or must I do that work myself?

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there is no limit on the quantity you can possess  and they can be ANY caliber or a mix.  the question of who can do the work, brings up a slight "GREY" issue because only the registered owner of the receiver can poss them , even for a short while. you could have a proper NFA manufacturer make and fit them if the receiver is logged for repair and adjustment in their books. its actually quite simple, my first 2 were done using a Makita 4" grinder. one example was really "hogged out" to speed the gun up before I managed to alter a closed bolt for Full. it runs faster than my 380 MAC and its already slotted. I did both 45 and 9mm in open and closed the closed is much quieter with the suppressor also


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For readers here....tread VERY carefully if you are following MT's line of thought on slotting additional bolts. Even if you own a reg. rec. with a blocking bar I seriously doubt you can legally slot yourself additional bolts - both by atf regs and logic. I mean you could use those unreg. newly slotted bolts in semi guns and get fa fire, no? That would be an unreg. MG.

the least desirable/ cheapest of Uzi family is the reg. rec with the blocking bar intact and thus its unreg. slotted bolt is indeed  "married"  to that one gun. 

As far as the Group Ind. and Vector Uzis-- the vast majority of them out there today have already had their demons exorcised and they are fine. But yeah a full properly converted IMI semi is generally thought to be the best and most expensive option.

Note that there are various degrees of conversions of the semi IMI guns to FA reg. rec. All can still be done (say to finish out an incomplete conversion) with exception of removing the blocking bar.

No way I'd ever slot new bolts under any circumstance. It's not like owning a reg.  SBR AR15 lower and having a mess of short uppers for it. 

 

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WRONG! the issue of legal spares has been addressed many ways over the years and I have confirmed what I stated with ATF on more than one occasion! comparing a short barreled upper to a MG internal part is a JOKE! and totally a different category. YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE SHORT BARRELED UPPERS YOU LIKE IF YOU HAVE A REGISTERED RECEIVER OR DROP IN! you go ahead and add support to the tech guys about caliber changes etc. EACH AND EVERY MECHANICAL ALTERATION MUST BE ADHEARED TO ON ITS OWN TO COMPLY! when the MG ban was announced, the first thing I did was register 5- FAL auto sears and more than 10 AR drop ins with my dealer. in addition we did countless others that have NO meaning here. when word got out plain steel was being registered , the compliance checks started and countless forms were DENIED !  the tech branch denied the FAL auto sears claiming too much work had to be performed to use them. I sent in pics of my 3 legal sear-cut G-series guns along with their own serial number list and they were still denied!  what works for one type will fail if applied to another. there are many examples of applied rulings that only apply to the period and type of alteration. many registered receivers are out there with NO CALIBER MARKINGS! they were NOT required at the time and only concerned licensed manufacturer's never individuals using form ones IE; when VECTOR  and GROUP made all the UZI's they , being  licensed manufacturer's had to mark them however they judged the rulings to apply! and added the 3 calibers  ANY REGISTERED FULL AUTO UZI RECEIVER CAN BE CHANGED TO ANY CALIBER AT ANYTIME ! IN FACT ANY LEGAL NFA  RECIEVER CAN BE CHANGED TO ANY CALIBER YOU WISH AND NOTHING DONE TO YOUR FORMS! again, confirmed by letter many times! when I first suggested the use of registered, altered Browning 1919 bolts in SEMI AUTO 1919's long ago, several long time SOT's sad no way! now its quite common.  IGNORANT APPLICATION OF REGULATIONS by uneducated people caused countless registered dewatts that were made live by licensed mfg'rs  to be marked by them and the status changed to "modern" because they could not interpret the law properly.  LETS NOT ADD TO THAT BY GIVING WRONG INFO OR ADVICE.  

"For readers here....tread VERY carefully if you are following MT's line of thought on slotting additional bolts. Even if you own a reg. rec. with a blocking bar I seriously doubt you can legally slot yourself additional bolts - both by atf regs and logic. I mean you could use those unreg. newly slotted bolts in semi guns and get fa fire, no? That would be an unreg. MG. "

YOU COULD PUT YOUR "UNREGISTERED SLAOTTED BOLT" YOU USED TO REGISTER YOUR GUN IN ANOTHER GUN ALSO" but only an idiot would do it or anything else KNOWINGLY VIOLATING THE LAW !   actual fact, you may not run into one for sale, I don't know how many rec were registered with the block intact . I do know of at least 5 done in "our circle". why?, I cant answer, the bolts were out there and traded commonly until the ruling for quite a while when one thinks back and it was the easy way. hell , no machining, no refinish, fill out a form 1 and get it back in less than a month , why not?  final thought? your neck is at stake, when in DOUBT check with ATF. its easy just be sure to ask only one specific question .


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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My job here is done. Readers of this post have the info they need to pursue their own decision concerning “cutting extra bolts” for their reg rec Uzis that have blocking bars in place. 

Im not here to argue. To each his own. 

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Mike Todd writes: "YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT, "SLOTTED BOLTS ARE MG'S BY THEMSELVES" .

The ONLY slotted, UZI SMG bolt that is legal for an owner to possess is the unmarried bolt that was in his registered, unmodified receiver A or B UZI. It is illegal for an owner to make his own slotted SMG bolt unless he is an 07/02 and it will be a post-May sample. If a part requires registration it cannot legally be possessed without registration. A part that is controlled by registration cannot be legally possessed in a finished state as a "spare" part even for an owner with a registered example of the MG for which it is used. Since you are making the claim that an owner of an early registered unmodified receiver A/B UZI with a slotted SMG bolt is exempted from the registration requirement for possession of another slotted bolt for his gun, please post documentation of this claim from ATF/NFA. And also that it is legal for him to make such a bolt. I remember when the ATF made the designation and over all these years I have never heard of any "grandfather" option, so I think documentation is a fair request. No? What am I missing here? FWIW

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Posted (edited)

What I am reading is that if one wants the ability to do caliber conversions, he should get a full SMG specification Registered Receiver Uzi. 

If one doesn't care about caliber conversions and wants a cheaper gun, he might be fine with a Registered Bolt.

I chose option #2, twice. One is in .45 and one is in 9mm. Both are still pending NFA approval. 

 

Edited by MontanaRenegade86

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WRONG! the issue of legal spares has been addressed many ways over the years and I have confirmed what I stated with ATF on more than one occasion! comparing a short barreled upper to a MG internal part is a JOKE! and totally a different category. YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE SHORT BARRELED UPPERS YOU LIKE IF YOU HAVE A REGISTERED RECEIVER OR DROP IN! you go ahead and add support to the tech guys about caliber changes etc. EACH AND EVERY MECHANICAL ALTERATION MUST BE ADHEARED TO ON ITS OWN TO COMPLY! when the MG ban was announced, the first thing I did was register 5- FAL auto sears and more than 10 AR drop ins with my dealer. in addition we did countless others that have NO meaning here. when word got out plain steel was being registered , the compliance checks started and countless forms were DENIED !  the tech branch denied the FAL auto sears claiming too much work had to be performed to use them. I sent in pics of my 3 legal sear-cut G-series guns along with their own serial number list and they were still denied!  what works for one type will fail if applied to another. there are many examples of applied rulings that only apply to the period and type of alteration. many registered receivers are out there with NO CALIBER MARKINGS! they were NOT required at the time and only concerned licensed manufacturer's never individuals using form ones IE; when VECTOR  and GROUP made all the UZI's they , being  licensed manufacturer's had to mark them however they judged the rulings to apply! and added the 3 calibers  ANY REGISTERED FULL AUTO UZI RECEIVER CAN BE CHANGED TO ANY CALIBER AT ANYTIME ! IN FACT ANY LEGAL NFA  RECIEVER CAN BE CHANGED TO ANY CALIBER YOU WISH AND NOTHING DONE TO YOUR FORMS! again, confirmed by letter many times! when I first suggested the use of registered, altered Browning 1919 bolts in SEMI AUTO 1919's long ago, several long time  IGNORANT APPLICATION OF REGULATIONS by uneducated people caused countless registered dewatts that were made live by licensed mfg'rs  to be marked by them and the status changed to "modern" because they could not interpret the law properly.  LETS NOT ADD TO THAT BY GIVING WRONG INFO OR ADVICE.  

"For readers here....tread VERY carefully if you are following MT's line of thought on slotting additional bolts. Even if you own a reg. rec. with a blocking bar I seriously doubt you can legally slot yourself additional bolts - both by atf regs and logic. I mean you could use those unreg. newly slotted bolts in semi guns and get fa fire, no? That would be an unreg. MG. "

YOU COULD PUT YOUR "UNREGISTERED SLAOTTED BOLT" YOU USED TO REGISTER YOUR GUN IN ANOTHER GUN ALSO" but only an idiot would do it or anything else KNOWINGLY VIOLATING THE LAW !   actual fact, you may not run into one for sale, I don't know how many rec were registered with the block intact . I do know of at least 5 done in "our circle". why?, I cant answer, the bolts were out there and traded commonly until the ruling for quite a while when one thinks back and it was the easy way. hell , no machining, fill out a form 1 and get it back in less than a month , why not?  final thought? your neck is at stake, when in DOUBT check with ATF. its easy just be sure to ask only one specific question .


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE ALREADY BOUGHT A REG'TD BOLT SO THE CHOICE IS MOOT AT THIS POINT. I HOPE IT WAS NOT A B&G BOLT. JUST TOO MANY OF THEM ARE FAILING WITH A TINY BIT OF USE!  I KNOW OF 3 SITTING AT A SOT IN LIMBO FOR REPAIRS. if one shops the right way, the RIGHT package WILL show up and I would opt for the reg receiver at twice the price! ust too many options that way.  all the spares you could possible want/ cal change/ RELIABILITY! 


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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Mike Todd writes: "YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT, "SLOTTED BOLTS ARE MG'S BY THEMSELVES" .

The ONLY slotted, UZI SMG bolt that is legal for an owner to possess is the unmarried bolt that was in his registered, unmodified receiver A or B UZI. It is illegal for an owner to make his own slotted SMG bolt unless he is an 07/02 and it will be a post-May sample. If a part requires registration it cannot legally be possessed without registration. A part that is controlled by registration cannot be legally possessed in a finished state as a "spare" part even for an owner with a registered example of the MG for which it is used. Since you are making the claim that an owner of an early registered unmodified receiver A/B UZI with a slotted SMG bolt is exempted from the registration requirement for possession of another slotted bolt for his gun, please post documentation of this claim from ATF/NFA. And also that it is legal for him to make such a bolt. I remember when the ATF made the designation and over all these years I have never heard of any "grandfather" option, so I think documentation is a fair request. No? What am I missing here? FWIW

 

DOCUMENTATION?  HA close to 40 years ago and during divorce # 2 spouse tossed all my important papers out in an irrigated back yard.more than 30 form 4's were lost forever and many treasured papers of historical importance. most concerning early COLT THOMPSON SALES. my original request for approval to the tech dept was so I could convert it to 45 acp. they replied as long as I followed the exact alteration as the original I could do what I liked.  MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING STATED ABOVE,  DOING THIS THREAD, IT HIT ME THAT WHEN I AM GONE, THE POSSIBILITY OF ALL MY SPARES BEING SEPERATED FROM THE REG'TD RECEIVER COULD VERY WELL HAPPEN AND PUT SOMEONE AT RISK.  AS SOON AS POSSIBLE  ALL THE BOLTS WILL BE DESTROYED AND MY ISLAND REMOVED ! at the same time I will mention this to the others I know .


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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8 hours ago, mike todd said:

IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE ALREADY BOUGHT A REG'TD BOLT SO THE CHOICE IS MOOT AT THIS POINT. I HOPE IT WAS NOT A B&G BOLT. JUST TOO MANY OF THEM ARE FAILING WITH A TINY BIT OF USE!  I KNOW OF 3 SITTING AT A SOT IN LIMBO FOR REPAIRS. if one shops the right way, the RIGHT package WILL show up and I would opt for the reg receiver at twice the price! ust too many options that way.  all the spares you could possible want/ cal change/ RELIABILITY! 

I do not know what the original poster (texas_yankee) needs or desires but I do not regret purchasing my Registered Bolts. I got both for what I considered to be a deal. 

Yes, one of them is a B&G bolt. I took a gamble. Time will tell if I chose poorly. 

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R-86, the original post by TEX YANKEE was asking for help choosing a  way to go with a FULL sized UZI. none of my comments were meant to or should be applied to the MINI or MICRO UZI'S. being a different animal they required another source for all the reg'td bolt manufacturers to work with .while my MINI has a factory MG bolt, I know several others with reg'td MINI and MICRO bolts that have been well used with NO ISSUES so I would not be concerned. even in the full size B&G's , most of the bad reports I have concern them from day one.  one of the bad ones we have for repair has been owned by at least 4 individuals, has never been reliable and looks like its had a couple M rnds use 4 or 5 rnds at a time. once the tax is paid, the only choice is try to make it work. the current owner asked for a refund and the seller laughed at him. in your case, I wouldn't have any concern. with the new parts I just bought, (semi bolt ) I plan to attempt a closed bolt full auto option by welding the "hood at the bottom. due to the speed I don't expect to have a very long sear life. that was the case with the full sized closed bolt full sears. but it is so quiet and fast, its worth the trouble. LOTS OF FUN!

 

 .


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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