R.L.

Got my Knob Creek flyer yesterday...

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What a mere shadow of it's past!!! So now the accommodations page is larger than the sponsor page, you know this place is continuing to suffer a slow, painful death. . I counted 17 sponsors on about 3/4 of a page. There used to be about 2-3 full pages of sponsors and a waiting list years long to shoot there. KInda' funny , after about 30 years I get a call from someone at K.C range a few years ago telling me that there's a place open now for me to shoot, and I better hurry because there are people behind me just waiting for their call too.

I just laughed and told her you must be kidding. No thanks.

So let me see now...I get to PAY to shoot for 3 days,  am threatened with loss of this paid spot if I leave before Sunday. Spend hundreds, possibly a few thousand on ammo. Get to breathe in dust, cigarette smoke from the inbred, and put up with the constant retarded chatter of a  myriad of armchair, Delta Force, Seal, special forces, black clad, ginormous bellied civi wanna-b morons.  All so Kenny and company can make hundreds of thousands of dollars on my effort and dime. HMM , something just a little wrong with that one.

UHHH , think I'll pass on future visits.

So very glad I had the opportunity to go, back in the late 80's through 90's when it was really a lot of fun and there were still a lot of knowledgeable people around. Unfortunately a lot of the good people I knew that came there have passed on. Back when 1919's were $1500 from DLO and Mac 10's were $500 all day long. 

Yep back in the dinosaur days! Gone forever.

So now it's $50 a person to camp in the mud with no amenities... I remember when it was $5 a day to camp.

My how things have changed.

 

R.L.

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I stopped going to the shoot, about 15 years ago, and that was a visit just to see how much it had changed.  Like you said, it was a good place to share info. and meet other prior service members to reminisce old times.  The Vietnam vet's. are now all about 70, and if they are like most, of whom I know, don't go there because of the crowd.  The mid to late 80's and the early 90's were just about the zenith of it.  Least it was for me.  Last time I went there was 2,000.  The crowd was different.  A lot of the long time vendors were not there, and the prices were ridiculous for a lot of worthless junk.  I bought a lot of Class 3 from Kent Lomont, back when he was still living in IN.  Those days are long gone, too.  Still hard to believe he is gone.  I think I will go to the shoot next month, to see what I haven't missed, and to take someone who has never been there before.21105579_1621209857923967_6516128342533735792_n.jpg

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Yes indeed those were the golden days. 2000 was my last time there also. Looks like the expiration date for this place was reached for a few of us all

at the same time. 

I really liked Kent and Kathy too. Nice folks.

Kent would talk with you all day about Lahti's, 20mm and such. I was very saddened when he and Kathy divorced. I don't think he was ever the same after that. But how many of us that go through that ever are?

I was also fortunate enough to come to know Bob Naess, whom I've also not seen in years. He was selling Russian Maxims belt feds with Sokolov mounts the last time I saw him for $6500!!! So it's been a while.

I met and became friends with Bob Landies too. I've not  seen Bob in years either. 

Karl Krotz, Bobs son in law, was usually the front guy at Bob's space under the "big top". Karl was really nice guy.

Of course that's when there only was 1 covered vendor area. I hear there are more now.

There was also a guy,a real character that directed traffic at K.C. once you were up to the old parking place on the right.

"NY. Joe" .

We would invite him into our camp to eat when you could camp almost where you want. He would let us stay where we were without anyone bothering us and would wander in throughout the the day to eat. I always wondered what happened to him.

Then there was Hank Kaminski, my buddy. Most people only knew him as the guy with the trailer mounted black powder cannon. A true diamond in the rough, but a kinder heart you'll not find. I met Hank, Carol and son Micah at knob creek years ago.I loved these people. Unfortunately Hank has passed on, and like everything else times have changed.

Not sure what year it was , maybe 2000. Seems someone had an issue with a porta potty and eliminated the threat with some sort of explosive device. Pretty funny to watch, but I think that may have been the event that ended camping for a few years. If you were not lucky enough to have been there during the "golden years" at K.C. you truly missed one of the best times in life.

These are the people and memories I will cherish for life.

 

R.L.

 

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Just in the time I have been going twice a year for 5-6 years now I have seen a large decline in vendor turnout. The gun show aspect of it is turning more and more into people pricing stuff higher than what it is on the internet and trying to pass off crap as gold.

I buy a lot of stuff there still for sure. But before no matter how much money I brought it was all gone and I had IOU's. Past two times I have come back home with money as there is just less and less to buy.

There was rumor in April of them doing a once a year show but making it longer. Don't know how much truth there is to that.

Also side note during the Lords Prayer they don't say "Lord" nearly as much as they used to. Used to be 30+ times now its less than 20.

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On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:20 AM, R.L. said:

 

So let me see now...I get to PAY to shoot for 3 days,  am threatened with loss of this paid spot if I leave before Sunday. Spend hundreds, possibly a few thousand on ammo. Get to breathe in dust, cigarette smoke from the inbred, and put up with the constant retarded chatter of a  myriad of armchair, Delta Force, Seal, special forces, black clad, ginormous bellied civi wanna-b morons. 

messed up with this quote, see follow up post! 

R.L.

 

Edited by mike todd
changes

I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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Get to breathe in dust, cigarette smoke from the inbred, and put up with the constant retarded chatter of a  myriad of armchair, Delta Force, Seal, special forces, black clad, ginormous bellied civi wanna-b morons.  All so Kenny and company can make hundreds of thousands of dollars on my effort and dime. HMM , something just a little wrong with that one.

SHAME ON YOU!! sounds like a California liberal complaining about cigarette smoke in the middle of that haze of lead and everything else on the line!  maybe its good that you chose to stay away.? YES ! its not what it used to be! yes it could be better! and while I certainly agree most of the "GANG " suffer from too much power syndrome, personally I have never cared for all the BEEN THERE DONE THAT, SO I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU AND LEAVE ME ALONE CROWD ANY WHERE! it has raised its ugly head at most of the gun shows also. many folks trying to get deeper into this "MADNESS"  lack any other place to LEARN and WE ARE REASPONSIBLE TO ALL THE NEWCOMER'S  like it or not. SO IF YOU CANT BE PROFESSIONAL, GRACIOUS and WILLING to share its BEST you stay in your little circle and suffer ALONE!  I WAS BLESSED with the BASEMENT DAYS at INTERARMS ! imagine a completely empty 12 year old surrounded by the GENERALS OF THE 50's and 60's IMPORT DAY's, after a while they started competing with each other to get me into some obscure firearm and tear it apart. I learned enough that I was left alone , doing repairs for all the local shops and still not old enough to drive. imagine DOLPH GOLDSMITH with "your" attitude, few would know anything historical about the VICKERS and MANY OTHERS . I BEST QUIT b-4 I go TOO Far and then shame on me.

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I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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You kinda' sound like  a democrat Mike...... democrats all know what's best for everyone..., and no-one can have a different opinion other than yours?? In my part of the country(yours too...maybe)  people are entitled to their own opinion, just as you are yours.

Be ashamed....what are you smoking? I make apologies to no-one, including you for what I posted about K.C. and further more I meant every word of it! Now you may not like that but you'll certainly get over it... or not.

Not really my concern, but at a minimum you are entitled to you opinion too no matter how far off base you are and who am I to tell you that? Enjoy the smoke.

 

FWIW,

R.L.

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@mike todd,

   I saw DOLPH GOLDSMITH last Thursday at the show. He is always the first to set up it seems. He is a pleasure to talk to and wealth of knowledge and experience as you know. 

   He walks with a walker now. But looks and seems to be doing great for his age. I’ve gotten some great rare items from him too over the shows I’ve been to. 

Aaron

Edited by Aaron in Mohnton Pa
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RL  THERE YOU GO, THATS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, I NEVER SAID YOU WERE NOT ENTITLED EITHER !. just expressed my opinion on the STRICKTLY NEGATIVE ATTITUDE !  which of course you are entitled. WE ARE IN TOTAL AGREEMENT about the creek and its failings. I just felt you went way out of line describing the public (no matter how accurate) because in its depth it can only hurt our cause. the "other side" needs no help.  DEMOCRAT? ME? I don't accept any title namely POLITICAL.  I'M just an old school individual that feels an obligation to share things learned with others. I still remember when vendors made eye contact across the table at a show, answered questions GLADLY no matter how basic or appearing idiotic without making snide comments to a table mate and alienating ANOTHER POSSIBLE MEMBER OF OUR COMMUNITY! OF COURSE I WILL LIVE WITH IT we must have variation  in order to judge and form our OWN opinion. I actually endured the post and reread it several days b-4 I was reluctantly forced to express myself. I just couldn't pin down the part that made me feel the most disappointment . I guess it was mainly the negative attitude about the public behind the line and the descriptions applied to them. you left out all the veteran clerk typist's in flak vests with all the  MIA buttons that came home crying because there were not enough tits for the litter demanding attention. I remember seeing LOTS of those on BOTH sides of the line. its very hard for me to hold back all my personal feelings when I read some of these post's , I do so to avoid separation of the ranks. some past dealers cherished by members have many wicked acts to pay for and I let it slide all in the interest of the group. glad to see that I inspired you to respond, at least you thought about it again, maybe some of the first was just a gut reaction to your frustration?   as always CHEERS ! MIKE


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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TO EVERYONE and especially R.L. , I would like to apologize for my  previous response to (both) his post. I got entangled with my own needs and forgot that this is not a debate forum or a place to argue ! he had every right to express his feelings and not expect a challenge because it reflected his personal opinion. the proper response , IF ANY would have been an expression of my opinion without pointing him out directly. actually I agreed  "most" of it. its best I keep emotion out of my post's  and I know it. I WILL try harder to refrain from such activity. sorry MIKE


I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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While we are on the subject of Knob Creek going downhill, has anyone seen the subgun shoot scores posted yet?????

When Paul Winters was running the shoot he usually had the scores posted the following Monday.

Seems like all KCR cares about know is collecting and counting money.

Jim C

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normally, I am so thank full to be part of a "happening" that the excitement crushes most negatives, unless very flagrant. but about 5 years ago at the creek , I began to notice that the "power" virus gestated and spread to almost everyone except those WONDERFULL LADYS in the office. EVERYONE was in CHARGE because " I am" and "I said" and "you will or leave" . My truck has disabled plates and I had to move it 3 times the first day due to 3 different "that's MY responsibility".  HELL it happens everywhere and is automatic if the one affected is not able to resist. LAW ENFORCEMENT, crosswalk guards, school bus drivers etc usually give in display the results.  Another great example, you surely have seen is take the meekest, quiet member of the show board of directors and put him in charge of checking all the loaded weapons coming in the front gate. before long he will be trying to control who how and when guns can come in with spectators for trading that "UNFAIRLY COMPETE WITH MEMBERS THAT PAID FOR TABLES" or some such dribble . it was one of the worst issues I faced as show director in the past.  I add this following thought with reservations and don't want to offend, someone mentioned it about the creek in a previous post. I AM A CHRISTIAN and graciously ceed ALL power to the MAN. I do not agree with or participate in public prayer at ANY commercial event but have no problem with others that have the need. I walked out at the last "opening" I attended getting a few snide remarks from others present.  AT my shows I did allow it in individual groups if someone felt the urge , but would not allow it to be a part of any official opening or what have you. FOR the most part I will do all I can to promote the CREEK despite its faults and any other shoot, show etc that brings like minded folks together and will continue to do so as long as I breathe 

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I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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I definitely wish I would have been around at Knob Creek back in its prime. I can certainly understand what everyone is saying. I am in my mid-40’s, and only now am I able to afford to go and of the mind to seek out gatherings like KC. I went for my first time three years ago, and other than missing it twice (because of family) I would never miss it! To be around all of you fine gentlemen and ladies, the best of what our country has ever had to offer, and to be around the tools and instruments you've wielded and still wield. It’s something I feel blessed to experience each time and also regret that more of my generation (and those after it... I don’t know where this world is headed, but it doesn’t look pretty) have not, do not, or choose not to, or simply are ignorant of the ability we have to witness and hopefully partake of everything that goes on there.

As a civilian, its true that I have not yet owned a machine gun. I hope to change that one day. I do buy pieces, one piece by one piece. It’s all I can afford. Plus, I dont have the knowledge yet to put them together in any useful manner anyway. But thats okay. I get caught up in the history that might be infused into each of those pieces. Maybe they will make something whole one day.

I also dont ever see the other side thar you mention, being that I dont exhibit on the line nor am I a vendor. I certainly feel the pain of the price hikes on what’s for sale, but I always leave broke and I still leave without a thousand things that I wanted to get. I wish it was still like you’ve said it was back in the 80’s and 90’s. I wish there wasn't this NFA crap, so that a 1919 or an MG34 were a thousand bucks instead of $20,000.00 apiece (or MORE... making them basically not obtainable to own for most of us), but those changes were all etched in stone long before me or before I had a word to say about it.

Regardless, I just want to thank all of you for still showing up and showing me (and every new friend I bring each time) what it’s about each MGS, what the big guns are really like, and for serving our country (those of you who have served... and still do), even this late in the K C game. From the bottom of my heart, I appreciate you men and what you bring there. It’s one of the greatest experiences of my life and I look forward to going there every single time. EVERY TIME. So, thank you.

I do pray that the dwindling numbers turn around and that the experience for you shooters does too. I also pray that it stops raining there when I go, but I’m not complaining. I hope some of you “old professors” make it down again, as even now in my 40’s, I am more apt and eager to hear whatever knowledge from you guys that you care to share.

God bless the USA!

Edited by samorgan
Spelling errors, grammar errors, general flow

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By the way, even my wife loves it there.

I don’t know how you guys pulled that one off, but you did.

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SAM, your note was very moving to me and said it a touch better than I ever could, but it is EXACTLY what I was trying to get across in my FIRST post on this subject.  would like to address a couple things you mentioned and cant put them together so it may not make a lot of sense unless you keep it separated. #1 is your frustration about the cost to get that first NFA treasure. if you have visited the "FAL TALES THREAD" you know that  was tossed in the middle of a "group" of gents all beyond middle age.   ALL of them were/are infamous surplus vendors known to be ruthless when it came to profit and hard bargainer's . HOWEVER they were smart enough to know that when they could make a sale, bringing someone new in the fold, it only increased demand for their goods. I heard that actual statement made many times when pricing guns in the market . the common things would be sold for little profit , making up for it with those rare gems that came in. its hard to put in words but the majority of people I knew of were more concerned with shooting , tinkering and friendship rather than how much money they made in a gun deal. it was IMPORTANT that it was good for ALL.  Its been my experience that folks saving for that special purchase work diligently with big things only to throw it all  away on a daily basis a dime at a time. when I started my family, my hobby did not suffer , my luxuries did and it still grew. NO BEER, NO HUNTING TRIPS, NO NEW TRUCK, equaled a COLT THOMPSON in 2 years at most back then. but for quite a spell I had to sell something to buy something. the same process will work now, even at these insane criminal prices , but its much harder and takes even more attention to  the "small things "in order to work. SADLY about 1980 or so, a new virus struck our community. I cant name it, but its effect is, " how much can I make"  I under stand not wanting to sell something and doing so only if motivated by a high offer, but basically its dog eat dog out there and that's just not the way it was. okay now we can face that , how do you get around it?  INFORMATION ! and KNOWLEDGE ! do your research and don't guess.  With the cost of fuel, time away, vendor fee's and no more cheap surplus ammo, not to mention line fee's, you will never see the creek like it was again. I can consider all that as entertainment  and live with it easy, because its WHAT I DO! but a major reason to drive 2 days and play was to see what new hit the streets and rummage for treasure's. for the most part that's over. after that first day, I always missed some deal because I was doing my favorite thing and that's visiting old friends. as long as there are 2 of use under the cover jawing and laughing it will be worth all the effort for me. good luck with your QUEST, STAY FOCUSED and cheers mike

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I only accept postal money orders. contact me DIRECTLY before sending any funds                                           email  myoldiron@outlook.com        

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Yeah, I can agree with some of the comments and will disagree with others. Personally, I'm sad that I had to miss the fall shoot, as the wife just had a total knee replacement. She loves it as much as I do, so there was no thought of going without her. Plus she willingly serves well as a gun bearer and ammo pack mule.

I was on "the list" for a shooting position since 1995. Never made it. Seems they switched to a computer based list sometime in the early 2000s. After 2005 I figured I'd check to see where I was on the list. The original waiting list was a yellow legal pad and over 30 pages long, single sided. Found out I was no longer on the list. WTF? Yeah, they said they called everyone up to confirm they still wanted on the list. Well, I had bought a house in 2001. Notifying Knob Creek my number had changed was really not a high priority. But!!, they still had the yellow legal pad. If they could find my name they will put me where I should have been. So they did. I went from page 33 in the legal pad to number 13! OK... So maybe next year? Nahhh. 2 years later I was number 3. So I got ready...but again, no call. So I called them and found out I was no longer on the list (for whatever long rambling reason). Shall we put you back on? 

I looked at what had previously been a mountain of 8mm ammo for the past 20 plus years and said no. 

I still go every spring and fall to meet and shoot the bull with friends I've acquired during my last 30 years in the NFA world from around the country and world. As far as shooting, we bring a few toys and go down to the lower ranges for $15 an hour and a half. Nobody bitches you out for not shooting enough or leaving early and if you want to stay longer hand the guy another $15. Beats the hell outta $300 plus or whatever it is now on the main line. Much more relaxed on the lower ranges with no endless cease fires. 

The Bowers group used to do exactly that back in the day. It was called "The Bum's Rush". Took place every Saturday morning just about as soon as they opened the lower firing line. The Bowers Group generally took up all the available slots for the first two relays. Big fun. Nice meeting all the guys on all the boards face to face... and yeah, I pretty well know the who of the exploding port o potty. 

I've been doing the Creek since 95, spring and fall and will for as long as I can.

Shattered

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