Need value on unique M2 carbines

[Bill in Bama]

I'm trying to determine the value of a couple of rather unique M2 Carbines for a friend, and hope to broker them if he's open to offers.  He has a Plainfield "Enforcer" pistol type carbine, pistol grip but no butt stock and about a 10" barrel.  I haven't been able to find any listed anywhere so I have no idea of its worth.  I know few military parts will interchange but the gun is a good shooter and in good shape.  He also has a US Postal Meter M2 conversion, all military parts but the receiver, barrel, band and most other parts that "show" are chrome plated.  The plating has chipped off the barrel in a couple of places and the receiver shows some evidence of pitting before the plating was applied.  Again, nothing out there similar, so what is the collective opinion? 

[MontanaRenegade86]

Which part is registered? Receiver? Trip lever? Trigger housing? 

Personally, I think value is going to be determined by what the registered part is and not how unique these firearms may appear to be. 

A registered receiver Plainfield Enforcer would probably be worth around $10k, a registered trigger housing in a Plainfield Enforcer is probably going to sell for $12k+.

Same goes for the USGI M2 although the numbers will be a bit higher. 

[Bill in Bama]

I don't know, I haven't seen the Form 4's yet, the owner is still digging for them. Thanks for the help.

[MontanaRenegade86]

I'd be willing to bet that the Plainfield Enforcer is a registered kit gun of some kind.

If so, depending on what part of the kit was registered, you can get a premium. A registered trigger housing is going to be worth more than a registered lever. By how much is going to depend on the seller and buyer but it could be several hundred to a thousand dollars. That's how much extra I was willing to pay when I was shopping for an M2 kit a couple years back. For what it's worth...

 

[Bill in Bama]

I'm not very well versed on the enforcer series, except I know all the commercial M2's use lots of non-military parts so they don't interchange.  Is the trigger housing military?  I thought not.  Even so, I guess a registered trigger housing would bring more than the lever.

[MontanaRenegade86]

1 hour ago, Bill in Bama said:

I'm not very well versed on the enforcer series, except I know all the commercial M2's use lots of non-military parts so they don't interchange.  Is the trigger housing military?  I thought not.  Even so, I guess a registered trigger housing would bring more than the lever.

Plainfields are 100% interchangeable with their USGI counterparts. Universal, another Enforcer manufacturer, is apparently another story.

If a trigger housing was registered, it would depend on which housing was available at the time. I suppose the same could be said for any of the other parts as well.

My registered trigger pack is actually a commercial cast housing. Most other registered trigger groups by the same manufacturer are military housings. 

What makes the housings so desireable is their durability. That’s why I was willing to pay extra for one.

Regardless of which part was registered, any M2 kit is going to be worth more than a registered receiver gun. You can move a kit around, the same can’t really be said of a receiver.

For what it’s worth, there is an Enforcer with a registered trigger group for sale on the other board for $11k. That is actually a pretty good deal in my opinion but to be fair, I am a Carbine fanatic. I love that gun, especially with the fun switch engaged.

Good luck!

[Bill in Bama]

Thanks for the additional info.  Are you a candidate for this gun? I'm guessing(again) that the number of Carbine fans is small when it comes to the full auto versions.

[MontanaRenegade86]

4 hours ago, Bill in Bama said:

Thanks for the additional info.  Are you a candidate for this gun? I'm guessing(again) that the number of Carbine fans is small when it comes to the full auto versions.

I love the Carbine and would like to have another in my collection but I’ve got a few other things I’m considering right now. That said, I will strongly consider it if/when it comes up on the boards.

Cheers,

Kristopher

[mike todd]

my 2 cents may not make since but I will give her a try. in the past we have stripped  many commercial carbines down to the bare receiver and installed all GI parts with no problem. its when you try to use some commercial and some GI that snags pop up. the enforcer is a lot of fun, but one cant appreciate it like a full size carbine. nothing beats it in my book and I have never been without one. when trying to figure out the best option, my first choice would be a registered GI housing, it allows a full parts replacement without any problems and all the back up spares you could want. second choice would be a registered receiver. again it allows ALL the parts to be replaced and backup spares present no legal problems. for me THATS IT. there is no 3rd choice. that makes much since. the only other part you see is a registered trip and I have replaced quite a few in the past due to wear. for a while carbines did not attract much attention mainly due to ammo choices and availability. it took a while to get over all that cheap surplus. STAY AWAY FROM MOST EURO CARBINE AMMO! many guns were broken with the FRENCH AMMO. the powder made some moves and detonation started showing its ugly face. sometime in the 70's or 80's an entire boatload of ammo was seized of the Phillipine coast. it was from china and stamped LC-67 and LC-69. it was all made in china and corrosive and it killed several guns. it became unsellable in the plain boxes so the toads put it in bags for the unwary. just don't buy ANY LC carbine ammo from the 60's and your good. another thing is magazines. everyone wants 30 rounders and originals are hard to find. NO USGI MAG was EVER MARKED M-2. they are questionable aftermarkets AND THATS FACT!!  FN made some GOOD ONES and I believe NORTHRIDGE bought them all. never had a problem with a single one. the 15 rnd mags will work decent, I stretch the springs and take the hold open follower out of any M-2 mags I find for them. some say the new Korean 30s work but don't expect the springs to last long.  that's all I have now and I'M ure there is plenty more from others.  most importantly  get one and ENJOY. cheers MIKE

[Bill in Bama]

Thanks for that info, good to know.  FWIW, I have a couple of ammo cans of .30 Carbine that came from the 70's that I KNOW is original, b/c my friend had it left over from his Father's store that closed way back when, the ammo has been stored all this time and is the real deal.  I've come up on some of the cheap 30 round mags and agree fully with your assessment of them.  I've loved the M-1 Carbines ever since I was a boy playing Army after watching the war movies from the 50's and 60's.  I bought one from Sears in around '66 or so, when I was only 17.

 

[Buddy H]

way back in 1974 .... my dad asked if I wanted to go with him to a friends house .... as he was selling some " army rifles ".

he had two ..... a 1903 Springfield and a M1 Carbine .......

Like many other old timers ...... I grew up watching the TV show ....... COMBAT !! 

And one day dreamed of owning a M1 Carbine

the guy wanted $50 for the Carbine ....... That was THE DAY I GOT MY CARBINE !!

guy even had the CMP paper work ...... 1 M1 Carbine $17.50 ...... postage $2.50 ..... mailed DIRECTLY to him back in 1963.

my Dad walked away with the 1903 ......

A few weeks later my mother said " hey there is something called a gunshow downtown this weekend ..... why don't you go down there and get som bullets for your rifle ". ......... she called cartridges ...... bullets .

That Saturday in August of 1974 ........ WAS THE FIRST DAY OF A LIFETIME OF GUN COLLECTING !!!

GOOD MEMORIES !

The first 2 years ......

 

 

 

[Buddy H]

First 5 Years .........

[BDMERC]

JMHO: Is the Enforcer a machine gun and not a semi auto? I know they sold semi-auto pistols by the "boat load". If  it is an amnesty registered m.g. in nice shape it may be something worth listing high and be willing to negotiate. I know that there weren't a lot of full autos produced, and at the time, the primary buyers were L.E. (while there were a good number of machine gun dealers back then, not so many machine gun collectors or "qualified" buyers).

First thing I would do with the Postal Meter M2 is find "correct" U.S.G.I. parts to replace the chrome parts and get the receiver parkerized. I mean, DAMN! A chrome plated carbine!

 If it is a M2 marked receiver and you restore it to original issue specs., it should go for top dollar. All govt. issue M2's I have encountered are Inlands, so a USPM M2 (if there is such a thing) would be quite a departure from what is most often encountered. I am speaking on this as a non-expert on M2 carbines, so I'm sure some individuals on the boards can advise you as to production numbers from different manufactures, and military conversions versus original production M2's. I've encountered many converted M1/2 "strike throughs" from various manufacturers. My late uncle who was in Italy in WWII told me that there were a lot of "field conversions" of the M1 Carbine, as he converted his carbine to full auto only,  without advice, approval or assistance!

[mike in pa]

On 7/6/2018 at 10:22 AM, mike todd said:

sometime in the 70's or 80's an entire boatload of ammo was seized of the Phillipine coast. it was from china and stamped LC-67 and LC-69. it was all made in china and corrosive and it killed several guns. it became unsellable in the plain boxes so the toads put it in bags for the unwary. just don't buy ANY LC carbine ammo from the 60's and your good. a

Back awhile ago there was 30 carbine ammo marked LC52, plain brown boxes with the LC52 in blue ink, that stuff was definitely corrosive Chinese ammo.

[mike todd]

BDMERC, I have seen every WWII manufacturer marked carbines stamped "M-2" many of the first run "INLAND" M-2's were simply marked "m" when the receiver markings were applied. then as they were completed the final digit was hand stamped in the proper model. during the post war rebuild program it was common to "overstamp" the 1 with a 2 if so equipped which has been the majority in my observations. during inlands final two build lots there were indeed several that were marked "M-2" at the same time. they should all be very high number guns.  WINCHESTER factory marked M-2's are also common. NOW THINGS CAN GET A BUT CONFUSING?  PRIOR to the 1968 gun control act, many of us that converted and registered standard carbines to M-2 would also over stamp the 1  with a 2 which is perfectly legitimate and legal under the act. COMPLIANCE raises its ugly head when we started registering other than the actual receiver as the actual NFA item. many people would over stamp the "HOST" with a 2 in a desire to look more realistic. that in fact creates an additional NFA weapon that is NOT in the registry and a violation even if the registered "pack" is present . I have observed several examples openly traded and offered by many mainstream high volume dealers and just shudder at the consequences. to appreciate it fully you must have endured the months following the act becoming law and seen how much attention carbines attracted and how they were used to charge individuals that would never dream of violating ANY LAW.  last summer we had a small shoot here at the ranch and one guest  brought his recently approved trigger group registered as a group only that he bought from a "MAJOR" dealer. it was packaged with a KOREAN ERA rebuild M1 the dealer supplied. someone had thoughtfully over stamped the 1 with a 2.  ATF has issued several "rulings" stating that ANY carbine marked with a 2 ,  over stamp or not is of and by itself a firearm and must be registered. I wonder how many other innocent victims are out there waiting?

[Bill in Bama]

I got the Form 4's on both these guns, and I have also bought them, pending approval of the Form 4's to me.  At least ATF has cashed my check.  The Enforcer is registered as "M1 Enforcer converted to M2". and the Postal Meter gun is similar, "M1A1 converted to M2."  I am pretty sure the M1A1 part is wrong, but you go with what you got I guess.  So, the receivers are both the registered part as I see it, and once I have them in my inventory I'm going to offer them for sale.  Neither has an overstamp that I find, certainly not on the top of the receiver as is usually the case.  I have a box of extra parts some of which are spare M2 parts, and an M1 slide and an M1 trigger housing that appears to me to be made of either an alloy or a composite, no numbers on it I have found yet.  I can get access to the guns most anytime I want and plan to take a lot of pics both to facilitate the future sale and for my own use in identifying all the pieces of these guns.  BTW, it is Nickel plating, not chrome, I'm told.  The plated Postal Meter gun was once owned by the asst. police chief of a Birmingham, AL suburb..  Thanks for all the comments on this subject, more later.

[Bill in Bama]

Update:   I have secured copies of the original transfer/manufacture papers on these two guns.  The  Postal Meter carbine was registered on a1964 Form 1, Application for Registration of Firearm from the U.S. Treasury Dept. IRS.  (ATF didn't exist then).  It is dated Jan 7, 1966 for the approval date and was filed on Jan 5, 1966.  TWO DAYS!  One simple page. 

The Enforcer was registered on a Form 4467, amnesty registration paper on Nov. 29, 1968, and approved on Jan 21, 1969.  It also includes a letter from the transferee and a letter from the sheriff of the county certifying that the transferee was a deputy sheriff.  Cool stuff.